In an interview in 1998 in Zurich you said that you have a running gag. In a few years, Andy will be a great producer and you, Lou, will live on the countryside baking bread and looking after the children. Have you come closer to that vision?

Lou: "He's a great producer, that's true."

Andy: "And she never has time to make any bread."

Lou: "I don't bake any bread, no."

Andy: "She's too busy."

Lou: "I haven't baked any bread for a long time so half of that's come true, I suppose. I've been kept busy with small things like that." (laughs)

For us, all of your albums have metaphors. The debut Lamb is 'stomach', Fear Of Fours is 'head' and What Sound is 'heart/soul'. What do you think of that?

Lou: "I like that, that's very perceptive of you. We've been thinking about it in similar terms ourselves. Especially Fear Of Fours was very head-based, because the time we wrote it was very reactive. We were reacting to the response we got from the first album. We kind of went like this "okay, I want to sing like this, this should sound like that". It was all coming from kind of thoughts rather than feelings. It was like the feelings were being lost somewhere. I think there is some warmth in that album, but a lot of it is quite cold and angular and that's because the heart's been missed out - in a way. The heart's been kind of shut up by the head. I think with What Sound it's probably the opposite. We shut the head up quite a lot. We just kind of tried to take the head out of the equation, so that the heart could speak. That's what it feels like. When we listen to it, it feels just like a very true reflection of our hearts and what we wanted to do."

Andy: "We've been describing it in kind of similar terms, but a bit different. The first album, we're three years old. Everything is new and wonderful and there's no one else involved, everything is magic. Fear Of Fours, we're about thirteen, fourteen, just saying: "fuck you!"" (all laugh).

Lou: "Like teenagers. trying out all the different clothes and make-ups, finding out our identities. Identities are very important at that age, aren't they?"

Andy: "What Sound is like in the twenties: whatever other people think doesn't really matter. That's what we are about. Let's give up make-up, let's be honest and open."

Is that the reason for the artificial sound of your voice on Fear Of Fours?

Lou: "Yeah, it's weird, because at that time I didn't even think about it being artificial."

Andy: "Hmmm... me neither."

Lou: "I think we were both playing around with lots of things. It really was like trying on different clothes. "Is this me? I don't know. Is this me?" Just that sort of thing. You know when you're a teenager and you have your hair cut one way, you have a certain identity. Then you have your hair cut another way... and hang out with another group of friends... You know, that's the sort of album it was, kind of finding ourselves. And that was the sort of difficult phase of finding yourself."

Andy: "And it was all kind of weird, Lou having her first kid. I reacted strongly to that because I was losing a big part of Lou and it kind of put quite a divide between us."

Lou: "I was losing a big part of me as well. I don't think I realised before I had a child how much it would effect everything. And it's like when you've had a child, you have to redefine yourself. I don't know, it's very strange, it's different for men, but for women... you spend nine months of your life pregnant and your body's hoop is just taken over by this small being and you just wear baggy clothes. You kind of lose your identity, but that becomes very, very unimportant. You are much more in touch with what's natural. When you come out the other side you're just like: "Oh shit, who was I before this and what did I wear? And what did I look like..?" I didn't look the same way, not even my face, you know. It's like your eyes changed, not only your stomach." (laughs) "...or belly, I should say."

We were in London at the secret gig at Cargo. There you had this video screen. When you played Gabriel, there was this old woman on the screen peeling an orange. Well, I really liked that.

Lou: (laughs) "I didn't see this."

Andy: "I heard about that. I've still never seen the video of the show..."

Lou: "It doesn't feel very appropriate having a woman peeling an orange in Gabriel" (laughs)

Andy: "But, you know - he loves it."

Yeah, it was kind of really different to the video you did for Gabriel. I liked it. Do you have this video screen at every concert of the tour?

Andy: "Yeah, it's kind of a lot better..."

Lou: "We worked on it a lot more."

Andy: "We've got a camera-person now, who is on stage with us, all moving around. Having a moving camera makes it so much different. Before, we were really limited by like a shot of Lou, a shot of me, one wide shot and then video stuff. Now we're using a lot less video things and a lot more camera work. We just really like it. It kind of seems to condense some bits of the action and put it onto the screen. We didn't really want video, because we're a band and there's a lot to look at on the screen. It's not that we're some two dj's with loads of lights on, because of the intimate nature of What Sound..."

Lou: "...It would be good, if you could see our faces more clearly and get kind of a closer feeling."

Your artwork completely changed. Why did you decide not to continue the work with Rick Myers?

Lou: "It was just part of the whole process of this album. When we split the band and got back together again, the whole thing was like a new chapter. It was like just turning over a new leaf. We even told the live band that it wouldn't be necessarily playing again live and all of that. We just wanted to throw everything out and then start again - in a way. I think Rick's work is fantastic and he's a close friend of mine as well. We've done a lot of work with him and his work was associated with our first two albums. He also has been doing a lot of work with Heavenly Recordings and with The Doves and all these bands. That's kind of a certain look. We kind of wanted to get away and do something fresh, you know."

Perhaps more friendly...

Lou: "Yeah! Just open."

Andy: "Absolutely! That was the thing with the website and with the artwork and with the album. Fear Of Fours is as if there is a wall there. The crowd is there and we are here. We just wanted to kind of knock down that wall. In our hearts, we're like really warm, friendly, open people, and so is the music. We're like: "let's take it one stage further". I think Rick's artwork is quite "isolation", I mean it's quite cold, a bit scraped and you can't really see it. It's all dark and huuu... This one is like bright and "here we are", a different look."

Lou: "Yeah!"

The song Sweet on your new album shows a new face of Lamb. It's almost a bit mainstream-like and quite poppy. Could you tell us what your thoughts are about this sweet side of Lamb?

Lou: "I had real pop-fear with that song. I'm usually the one who has pop-fear."

Andy: "Yeah, she usually has this kind of pop-fears."

Lou: (laughs) "'Whoop-whoop-whoop'... pop sirens."

Andy: "Usually, when she has pop-fears, it's good. Even when we did Gorecki she said: "Oh no, that's too pop!"." (Lou is still laughing)

Lou: "A very different version of Sweet was the first song we wrote for the new album, which was kind of weird in a way. It was one of the ones I had written that started without the chorus. That was just the first bit that I had written, before we came into the studio. It was the first song we've started to write, but it was one of the last songs that we finished, because the production of it was difficult. We just didn't know where to go with it. Meshell Ndegéocello's bass was one of the last things that was put on it, which kind of redefined it as well as a track. 80's funk."

Andy: "We've been working on it for two years. We really like this track. We love playing it and when she put her stuff on it, she was like: "oh, this is wicked." We were thinking this can be a big radio single. If we have one of those, the whole album will roll. But what we think are radio singles and what are radio singles, is not the same. We couldn't write one, if we tried."

Lou: "Yeah, when we think songs are pop, they're still a hundred miles away from the sort of pop the record company would like us to write. But when we play that song live, I do sometimes get pop fears." (laughs) "you know, the audience is singing along with me. But that's quite funny." (laughs)

We found an interview with Robert Del Naja from Massive Attack, where he brought up an interesting point. He said if you want to do something different, you have to take yourself out of a comfortable area and feel exposed. He can't see how it can all be fun 'cause he doesn't think it's real, if it is. So, do you think that suffering can be a way to become creative?

Lou: "Yeah, very... yeah. I think any sort of situation where you kind of struggle in some way you learn something from it. I think Andy and I probably would agree that we probably both have been in that sort of phase in our lives where, even if a bad thing happens, it quite often is a blessing in disguise."

Andy: "Always, I think good things and bad things are only good or bad, because that's what we define. That's how we define ourselves and we, as humans, we're convinced that by defining ourselves, we'll know about ourselves or have an easier life. But the bad stuff resonates more deeply and for longer. You have one bad criticism and you'll think about that a lot more than a hundred good ones you had, and it's very strange like that. I think 99% of the time, it's blessing in disguises - even the bad stuff, which is a kind of a good thing to be, because then it's not bad anymore. You cease to make it bad when bad stuff is good stuff, so, you don't throw away all your energy going: "oh this is the worst thing that's ever happened"."

Lou: "And you just realise that you're actually not in control. Life throws these things at you. So half your path, you know, there's no point fighting it. Just kind of go with it, because it's a wave and you're gonna come off again. Do you know the writer Isabel Allende, the South American writer? I heard an interview of her once. She talked about her daughter who died of cancer and I can't think of a much worse thing to happen than one of your children dying of something so hideous as cancer as well. But she was saying that in a strange kind of way she was grateful for that. Not grateful that her daughter died, but after suffering such pain, she was able to really, really feel joy. Because without the extremes, you just don't get it."

On your website, everybody can see and feel a bit of your private life, particularly because of the pictures of Lou's two sons. Your music and the lyrics are also personal and full of intimacy. Do you never fear to lose yourselves or to give too much to the fans?

Lou: "Sometimes, a little bit. Sometimes I wonder whether I should be happy to see my children on the web site, or whether it's an infringement over their privacy or something like that. And then also in terms of lyrics with very personal feelings. But then again, there's a sort of a universal side to those. You know when people hear those songs, I don't think they think: "ah, Lou was doing this then." I think they kind of think how it relates to their own lives. We all hear songs that resonate with us, because they're relevant to our lives. I think people are thinking more about that than what it meant to me as an individual. I think we can get too precious as well about the personal, you know, a sort of cult of "I", you know."

We were particularly thinking about Zero and Alien as close parts of a puzzle.

Lou: "Yeah."

And we thought that we can't imagine those situations, because we can never give birth to a child. Then I think it's really personal, there's not only that universal thought.

Lou: "Mmhh. Yeah, but at the same time, you know, when women lose a child, Zero does relate to them and also to women who are pregnant. So that's gonna be people that it means something in their lives as well. People quite often ask, why we don't play Zero live, because they do really love that song. It just would feel too exposed, actually too clarified. It might be different if it was a little, special, performance. I don't think it would work in a big gig."

It would probably be too much for the audience.

Lou: "Yeah! It's too tragic. That's the sort of song to listen to on your own, when you feel a bit tragic. I've noticed even when we do Sweetheart live, sometimes it kind of puts a little down on the audience. It's like they're really up and then we play Sweetheart... A friend said she cried in Sweetheart."

Andy: "Back to what we were saying, that's what we're about anyway..."

Lou: "...The ups and downs."

Andy: "We want to feel the ice and the fire... The extremes. It's just the middling, mushy, poppy stuff that we don't want, it's just really good or really bad or really something."

Lou: "But that's why it's weird when people say our music is melancholic, because it's something above. It's actually revelling in life and its extremes. I would say melancholic is somewhere down in the middle. Kind of lowest almost."

Perhaps, people understand that you need some dark thoughts to come to a lightful place. Always sunshine is not the way to become happy.

Lou: "Definitely. I mean that's definitely something that's in our music. we have a sort of ugly sounds and beautiful sounds. It's really important to our music. Rather than they're all sounding kind of nice - a kind of some charring, you know. stuff going on all the time, I suppose. But I wouldn't say that was melancholic, I would say that's poignant more than melancholic."

We read that once your bass player Jon Thorne almost became a full member of Lamb, but then you decided not to.

Andy: "Actually, we sacked him. He was out of the band for about one year. I could not imagine any more characters in the studio when we're writing. The two of us is more than enough. We got very strong opinions and we want to take it in very different directions. We tried working and writing with other people, but I think we've kind of found our chemistry."

Lou: "When we worked with Guy, that was really good for the period of time that we worked with him. But that period of time was kind of long enough. Obviously enough, there's quite a lot of collaborators on the new album. Jonny has co-written some songs with us, but I just think to make someone else a permanent member would be a mistake, because there is a sort of magic formula in Lamb and we don't really know the formula. We just know that something interesting happens with the two of us and it is like a kind of ying-yang fluid thing. A sort of opposites intermingling kind of thing and to bring in a third person would mess up that."

Does he personally like it that his influence became even less on the new album?

Andy: "No, of course not, would you?" (everybody laughs) "No, I mean it wasn't "oh, let's leave Jonny out" it was like how it always works. We write the songs. Everything's got keyboard parts or samples and now we go: "which ones can we replace with organic instruments?" A few times we said: "well, a double bass..." and then: nothing, stuck. Because the second album was a bassathon. The double bass was fucking everywhere, really loud and then we were like: "oh, we have kind of done that" and nothing stuck. At that time we aren't always thinking about how we are going to do this live. We just can't re-live and think about that. The songs have got to write themselves and we've got to allow them that privilege. By the end of it, we got to the end of the album and there was no double bass on it and we were like: "shit, there's no double bass. Jonny, can you play electric bass?"" (laughs). "That's what we've done and it's all worked out fine."

Were the most bass lines written by your co-producer Guy Sigsworth?

Andy: "No, he wrote a few. We used more keyboard bass lines. Guy is a very good keyboard player."

Will you continue to work with so many collaborators?

Lou: "Who knows?"

Andy: "Who knows?"

Lou: "We don't plan ahead at all."

Andy: "I think, planning is a bit like worrying in the creative business. It just never works out like that anyway, so why waste the energy?!"

Lou: "And I'm on a mission to live in present time, which I find tricky enough anyway. You know, to me, it looks like being in the moment. Each moment is something to really work towards. If you start thinking about the future, you get not blessed."

Just burn like a good bonfire...

Lou: "Yeah."

Do people recognise you in the streets of Europe?

Lou: "Only in Portugal." (laughs) "In Portugal, they bomb us. Anywhere else, we're just like you." (laughs) "It's great."

Andy: "It's quite interesting there. We taste like three days of what it would be like to be really famous. Then it's like interesting and quirky and a bit full on. Then you leave and kind of register it and then move on to the next place."

Lou: "I went into a venue the other day that we were playing at and they said: "oh, who are you? What do you do in the band?"." (laughs)

Andy: "Who said that?"

Lou: ""Are you crew?"" (laughs) "I said "no, I'm a singer." He went: "Well oh - oh right..." so there you go..."

We're curious to know what you think about the internet, your websites (including www.gorecki.co.uk where this interview will be hosted) and Napster or Audiogalaxy?

Andy: "I really like the Gorecki site - this site has got the most random reviews. It's got really good ones and really bad ones." (to Lou) "did you read that?"

Lou: "Yeah, there was that guy!"

Andy: "Yeah, it's really good, I really like this site."

Lou: "There is also a fan notice board where this one guy reviewed What Sound - he seems like a fan but he is also very, very particular about where we cross the line and where we don't. He sorted the songs of What Sound into a sort of "good", "bad" and "get off the turntable!". He is obviously really like worried about our kind of creditability. like: "hmm, I still really like that, but if they cross the line..! And they lost some creditability with this!" He's really, really particular, really obsessive."

Andy: "It's weird on our message board... (to Lou) You don't read the message board, but there's like about 500 on there at the moment. 99% of them are really good, but occasionally there's one who writes an essay on why we "lost it" and starts quoting stuff out of dictionaries. But then you've got to remember the kind of people who write long letters to websites are usually pretty weird."

Lou: "Yeah, for putting so much time in it."

Andy: "There are some pretty freaky people on the internet. It's a breeding ground for weirdoes because you can't see them, but there are also loads of really nice people as well."

Lou: "It's the most amazing thing though, really. What did bands do before the internet? We have a sort of two-way thing with the fans that you could never do before. Well you could with fan mail, but..."

Andy: "You never have time to."

Lou: "Yeah. I've got to admit I'm really crap at checking the website and writing things for it and everything because I have very little time by the time my kids wear me out."

Andy: "It's a bit more Andy-based than Lou-based."

Lou: "It's VERY Andy-based." (both laugh)

What do you think about Napster and Audiogalaxy?

Andy: "Yeah, Napster was wicked, when it worked. It was so cool. I'm gaffed that it doesn't work now, actually. And Audiogalaxy, I can't get it to work properly, doesn't seem to be that good."

It's like a new form of...

Andy: "I use Macintosh! It's all a bit weird, because you got to use another driver for it, like Macgalaxy or something. I couldn't get it to work. I do really miss to be able to find stuff. It was kind of good. If you download some stuff and you love it, then you go and buy the album, that's how I think it works. I suppose the record company just say: "Oh no, it's killing CD sales!". You know the albums you're not sure about, "shall I buy it or shall I rather not", then download a few tracks and if you like it, then go and buy the album, that's what I do. But I can't see any way that Napster could work in the way they wanted it to, because publishing and press and money, you know. No one is gonna use Napster, when you have to pay for it. You'll just find something else..."

...and you don't have the artwork and all the stuff. We as your fans, we need the records. We first check the internet to get the songs...

Andy: "Stuff like our singles, you know. Our singles are released in England only - maybe a few in Europe. All these European and American fans don't get to hear the remixes. If a record company is small minded enough not to release them then I want the people to hear it. So I like it if they download it, it's just as simple as that. I think we're going to have to do a remix album."

Lou: "You do get some weird things like that. Remember in the states we did this record signing and somebody turned up with an access tape..."

Andy: "An access tape of Gorecki, from Metropolis that we haven't got."

Lou: "God knows how he got it, but it was literally an access tape, like a first press from a cut of Gorecki! I was like: "where the fuck did he get that?!"."

For us it's hard to get the Softly single, for example.

Andy: "Basically the record company is very persistent on us having records on radio and Softly didn't make it on the radio, so they just pulled the single, which is why you can't get a lot of our singles. That's why a lot of people have to download them."

Lou: "All that was released in Europe of Gabriel was this appalling mix that we didn't even want to have done. They just released this remix..."

Andy: "Veena Harlem."

Lou: "Have you heard it?"

Yeah, it's crap!!!

Andy: "What else was on the single?"

Random

Lou: "Random!?"

Andy: "Did you get Lamb vs Cosmos: What Sound by Tom Middleton? That's wicked, I like that mix."

Yeah, it's on the single.

Andy: "We don't even know what's on our singles over here!"

But you know that in most parts of Europe your CD came out without the track Written?

Lou: "Yeah, that was another record company nonsense. Apparently the label wanted to avoid import costs."

Andy: "But we will put Written on the website. Actually it might be there already for anybody that hasn't got it. It's just record company bullshit, money politics."

Lou: (sad) "One of the many downsides to be on a major record label - and there are lots of them. Many, many downsides. The only plus is money!" (laughs) "and that's not even a lot of money. It's just money to live, basically. It's not like we get paid a lot."

Andy: "No, we don't even have money to tour!"

Lou: "Yeah, we even had to argue for a little bit of money to help us go on tour. We had to make all kinds of bargains for it... sell our souls." (laughs). ""PLEASE let us go on tour!""

Do you know how many What Sound albums have been sold?

Lou: "Well, it's doing quite well... It's doing better than either of the other two albums already, I think."

Andy: "It's about 100,000 already. That's the most recent figure i've heard. That's not including Portugal and USA figures."

Lou: "It was Number Two in Portugal, in the album charts for a little while."